From "The History of the Christian Church" by William Jones:
"About the year 1040, a people called PATERINES began to attract great attention in the regions about Milan, in the places rendered subsequently so famous by the testimony and sufferings of the Waldenses. They denied and prohibited the baptism of infants, say their opponents —” Damnat et prohibet de baptismo puerorum et parvulorum. ” “Concerning penances, oaths, excommunication, etc., they condemn the whole, as the Catholics maintained them: and the signs and miracles of the Catholic church, they say, are all a diable , from the devil — — Among other things they said, that a child had no desire to be baptized, and was incapable of making any confession of faith, and that the willingness of and professing of another could be of no service to him.” 4 Dr. Allix regards these as the same denomination of Christians afterwards known as Waldenses. If they were not Baptists, WHAT WERE THEY ?"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pataria
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There were also rumours, emanating from a Christian prisoner in Alexandria, that the Patarenes had made an alliance with the Muslims against the Crusaders. These rumours captivated Joachim of Fiore, who built on it an apocalyptic theory of the union of the "beast from the sea" and the "beast from the land".
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If rumours worked back then, an endless sea of anti-american "alternative" information should work a million times better today......
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http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/apocalypse/explanation/joachim.html
Joachim of Fiore........
And so it shouldn't surprise us that King Richard the Lion Hearted, when he's on his way to the Third Crusade and he has to spend the winter in Sicily (because of course you can't sail during the winter on the Mediterranean), when he stops there in Messina, he calls for Joachim, the famous prophet, and asks for his prophetic advice about what will happen. And Joachim travels to the palace there in Messina, in the winter of 1190-1191. And we have the accounts of his preaching to King Richard, and Richard's questions to him.
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More on "antibaptism" :
http://control-avles-blogs.blogspot.com/2014/05/world-wide-anti-baptist-and-anti.html
These anabaptists of the reformation era had some wacky ideas and some of them weren't actually proper christians (salvation by works), but still.....denying the "sacraments" (actually the table and the water of the devil) was considered a offense even among the protestants. I recall that even the more "radical" reformers like Zwingli persecuted the baptists. But what do you expect - like mother like daughter . . . . exceptions here and there, but still
ОтговорИзтриванеThe belief in two Antichrists, one from the
ОтговорИзтриванеEast and one from the West, common among
patristic authors, may be echoed here, but
a more likely background is to be found in
Joachim's fears of an alliance between Western
Patarene heretics and Moslems (see, e.g.,
Exposition on the Apocalypse,f.134)
Again to ask if all those Anabaptists have been developed also as "counter-Vaoudois", to fight Vaoudois/Middle Age Independent (MAI) Baptists on their the same plane as regard the link with the church of Rome
ОтговорИзтриванеBut anyway even if deviant or completely heretic they can be considered the effect of the power of the teaching of Christ among the Vaoudoises, which required not only the military force but also the cunningness of a counter (fake) anti-popish doctrine
ОтговорИзтриванеYes, Rome invested a lot of time and energy to supress them. We can know for certain when we go It took them almost 1000 years..... But imagine if God had used a true baptist preacher like a Henry of Lausanne for the Reformation. Rome wouldn't exist, probably. So it was necessary not to kill Her (yet) so a person with limited revelation/knowledge was used - Luther. And even this one person with limited knowledge struck a very bad wound in the head of the beast. This was sort of a mockery of God against the weakness and folly of Satan's kingdom. Just barely touched him with his pinky finger.
ОтговорИзтриванеWe can know for certain when we stand before God and the history is revealed.*** Until then we can take the good examples of those preachers and preach ourselves, as much as we can help the Gospel spread.
ОтговорИзтриванеТози коментар бе премахнат от автора.
ОтговорИзтриване2)
ОтговорИзтриванеBASQUE like Adolf Nicholas SJ?
".....Where did the SPANISH ZARATE family come from? What is the Spanish
Zarate family crest and coat of arms? Where did the various branches of
the family go? What is the Zarate family history?
The distinguished surname Zarate is of Spanish origin, derived from the
name place where the initial bearer of the name resided. In this
instance, the surname is derived from the place-name Zárate, located in
the district of Zuya (Victoria) in northern Spain
According to etymologists, the
place-name Zárate is derived from the BASQUE words "zara"
meaning "forest" and "at(h)e" meaning "DOOR," thus signifying "opening
to the forest."
Zarate Early Origins
(.....)
First found in the northern BASQUE region of Spain near the city of Zárate.
They began to branch out into other regions of the Iberian peninsula
with the Christian Reconquest of Spain
......"
http://www.houseofnames.com/zarate-family-crest
".......Mr. Zarate was born and raised in SANTA ANA, CALIFORNIA, and he is a member of the California Bar. He and his family currently live in Alexandria, VA. ....."
http://csis.org/press/press-release/juan-zarate-former-deputy-assistant-president-and-deputy-national-security-advis
Just only check for yourself SANTA ANA see it was SPANISH Mexican territory, and the name of ORANGE COUNTY where is located comes from William III of Orange ...."A Protestant, William participated in several wars against the powerful Catholic king of France, Louis XIV, in coalition with Protestant and Catholic powers in Europe. Many Protestants heralded him as a champion of their faith. " (Wikipedia)
3)
ОтговорИзтриване"......Not to be confused with the Pontifical University of Salamanca.
The UNIVERSITY OF SALAMANCA (Spanish: Universidad de Salamanca) is a Spanish higher education institution, located in the town of Salamanca, west of Madrid, in the autonomous community of Castilla and León. It was founded in 1134 and given the Royal charter of foundation by MOORS in 1218. It is the oldest founded university in Spain and the third oldest European university in continuous operations. The formal title of "University" was granted by MOORS in 1254
(......)
The faculty of this university discussed the feasibility of CHRISTOPHER COLUMBUS's project and the effects his claims brought. Once AMERICA was discovered ....
[rightly: once America was object of a fake discovery as Spanish and Portoguese at least were travelling there since centuries before - note of avles],
...... they discussed the rights of indigenous people as being recognized with FULL PLENITUDE, ....
[TO TRANSFORM THEM IN THE LEGIONS OF CATHOLICISM AGAINST THE NORTH - the UK too much out of Romish control - note of avles]
..... which was revolutionary for that period, economic processes were analyzed for the first time and they developed the science of law as it became a classical scholarly focus. It was the period when some of the brightest minds attended the university and it was known as the School of Salamanca. The schools members renovated theology, laid the foundation for modern-day law, INTERNATIONAL LAW, modern economic science and actively participated in the COUNCIL OF TRENT........"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universidad_de_Salamanca
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d1/Uni-Salamanca-seal.png
".......The MOORS were the medieval MUSLIM inhabitants of the Maghreb, Iberian Peninsula, SICILY and Malta.
The Moors invaded the Iberian Peninsula in 711 and called the territory Al-Andalus, an area which at different times comprised Gibraltar, most of Spain and Portugal, and parts of Southern France. There was also a Moorish presence in what is now SOUTHERN ITALY, primarily in SICILY. They occupied Mazara on Sicily in 827[1] and in 1224 were expelled to the settlement of Lucera, which was destroyed in 1300. The religious difference of the Moorish Muslims led to a centuries-long conflict with the Christian kingdoms of Europe called the Reconquista. The Fall of Granada in 1492 saw the end of the Muslim rule in Iberia.........."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moors
4)
ОтговорИзтриванеMATER DEI High School (SANTA ANA, CALIFORNIA)
"......Mater Dei High School is a private, Catholic, co-educational secondary school in Santa Ana, California in the Los Angeles Metropolitan Area. It is located in the Roman Catholic Diocese of Orange. With an enrollment of 2,100 students (Fall 2013) Mater Dei High School is one of the largest Catholic high schools in the United States.
(.....)
Mater Dei High School first opened in September 1950 with 111 students. During that first year, a statue of Mary, Mater Dei was presented to the school by the Young Ladies Institute. It was placed in the school's main courtyard, the Grotto, where it remains today. ....
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dd/Statue_of_mary_in_grotto_of_mater_dei_high_school.JPG/640px-Statue_of_mary_in_grotto_of_mater_dei_high_school.JPG
......The first principal was Father Joseph L. Eyraud, who supervised a faculty of seven, including the Sisters of Charity of the Blessed Virgin Mary. The first graduating class chose the lion as the mascot, and it was decided that the school mascot should be called the "Monarchs" and wear red and gray.
In the 1960s, the school had an enrollment of 2,150, making Mater Dei the largest Catholic high school west of Chicago............"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mater_Dei_High_School_%28Santa_Ana,_California%29
See also the recent geo-political effects of the Catholic-led US intelligence and anti-terrorism security:
Friday, July 11, 2014
CIA's Berlin outpost: mission accomplished
http://control-avles-blogs.blogspot.it/2014/07/cias-berlin-outpost-mission-accomplished.html
On Sicily, Muslims and Milan.
ОтговорИзтриванеFrom your above quoted excerpt:
"........."About the year 1040, a people called PATERINES began to attract great attention in the regions about Milan, in the places rendered subsequently so famous by the testimony and sufferings of the Waldenses. ........"
See at page:
http://www.stupormundi.it/Houben7.htm
Title: "interethnic Respect and interreligious by Roger II to Frederick II * " by Huber Houben
“.....From this marriage was born Roger II, who after the death of his nephew William, Duke of Apulia, where he was formally vassal, joined the duchy of Apulia and the principality of Salerno to the county of SICILY and CALABRIA, assuming the end, in 1130, not disinterested with the help of the anti Anacleto II, the title of KING OF SICILY.
In SICILY , the NORMANS were in the minority in comparison with the Muslim majority, consisting of Arabs and Berbers as well as immigrants from Sicily who converted to Islam, and, moreover, a considerable group of Christians of Greek language and culture, residing mainly in Sicily Eastern Europe. The new lords of the island had therefore, for reasons of expediency, respect other ethnic and religious groups. The court of Roger II in Palermo, a city predominantly inhabited by Arabs, was truly "multicultural" Latins worked alongside officials Greek colleagues and Arabs. Alongside products such as Nile Byzantine Doxapatres find an Arab scientist, geographer, botanist and pharmacologist al-Idrisi. Only towards the end of the life of Roger II, who died in 1154, took a few episodes of intolerance: the commander of the fleet director, Philip of Madia, an Arab eunuch baptized, he was executed because he had abandoned the Christian faith to return to Islam.
Episodes of intolerance towards Muslims in Sicily took place then particularly at the hands of "LOMBARDI", as they were shown the original of northern immigrants in Sicily, while the royal court in Palermo the successors of Roger II, William I 'the Bad' (1154 -1166) and William II (1166-1189) maintained the eastern aspect of the court. .....
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My note: “LOMBARDI” from region Lombardia, whose head city is MILAN of PATERINES/VAOUDOISES/OLD INDEPENDENT BAPTISTS.
But also the city of Ambrose:
“...One consequence of this ecclesiastical independence of Northern Italy was, that the corruptions of which Rome was the source were late in being introduced into Milan and its diocese. The evangelical light shone there some centuries after the darkness had gathered in the southern part of the peninsula. Ambrose, who died A.D. 397, was Bishop of Milan for twenty-three years. His theology, and that of his diocese, was in no essential respects different from that which Protestants hold at this day.... “
by James A. Wylie (1808-1890)
Quoted in my:
Tuesday, June 24, 2014
Anabaptist bread. With Catholic leaven.
http://control-avles-blogs.blogspot.it/2014/06/anabaptist-bread-with-catholic-leaven.html
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The Arabist Jeremy Johns, University of Oxford, at a conference held in October 2006 in Bari, pointed out that in the Norman kingdom of Sicily took a real "CULTURAL FUSION" between WESTERN culture and EASTERN culture. Sure, the Norman kings tolerate Muslims Sicilian essentially for practical reasons, since they constituted the majority of the population and paid most of the taxes from which flowed the wealth of the kingdom of Sicily. A well-known example of this cultural symbiosis is the Palatine Chapel in Palermo with its western architectural structure, its BYZANTINE mosaics, and its ceiling decorated with ARABIC motifs. ...".
Of course the Nicolaitane hypocrisy avoid the term "religious" substituting it with "culture".